tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post1416936154012819119..comments2024-03-24T13:12:39.210+13:00Comments on Bluestocking <i>Blue</i>: Homosexuality and CrossdressingViviennehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06137595207723645418noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-55752651968300088062014-10-29T21:01:57.005+13:002014-10-29T21:01:57.005+13:00Hi Georgia, and thanks for your post.
It seems li...Hi Georgia, and thanks for your post.<br /><br />It seems like a common-sense assumption that gay men would automatically be accepting of cross-dressing men. I am not sure this is always true, as the comment from Janice suggests. However, perhaps as a group they are more accepting than the "general" population.<br /><br />I believe you are right, that most gay men are not necessarily attracted to feminine men, but prefer masculine men. On the other hand, I am sure that this is not true of all of them. (Analysing internet searches is prone to an inescapable sampling bias: the result cannot be shown to be true of all gay men, just those gay men who use internet search engines).<br /><br />In my article about the actor Jaye Davidson (who is gay but looks very feminine), I quoted him saying that he had trouble finding partners, because most gay men are not attracted to androgynous or feminine men like him, but prefer more traditional images of masculinity. I guess he would know better than most.<br /><br />But few things are as true of humans as variety, which means we will certainly find feminine gay men, as well as masculine gay men attracted to them.<br /><br />Vivienne.<br />Viviennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137595207723645418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-75780634632041849832014-10-29T13:21:01.130+13:002014-10-29T13:21:01.130+13:00Your point about the motivation for gay men to cro...Your point about the motivation for gay men to cross dress in the past makes some sense to me, But I don't really know the history.<br /><br />But it makes sense to me that they wouldn't be very interested today.<br /><br />A lot of cross-dressers do it to get in touch with their feminine side. But that's already more okay in the gay community because they are already outsiders. And one of the ways that heterosexual men prove manhood is by demonstrating that they aren't femme or gay -- obviously, gay men don't have to deal with this.<br /><br />Plus, a lot of cross-dressers are motivated by a sexual fetish which is very heterosexual. The straight men are attracted to women, and wearing the clothing of women becomes a turn on. Clearly, that wouldn't work for gay men. I was reading something that talked about how if you look at Internet searches gay men have a strong preference for macho men.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-55820056238857588952014-02-04T23:25:27.301+13:002014-02-04T23:25:27.301+13:00Hi Grok. I agree that it seems something imposed f...Hi Grok. I agree that it seems something imposed from without, rather than something we chose from within.<br /><br />Vivienne.Viviennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137595207723645418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-10023658019977986002014-02-04T23:24:27.397+13:002014-02-04T23:24:27.397+13:00Thanks for taking the time to post, Sally. I too h...Thanks for taking the time to post, Sally. I too have met a gay couple who crossdressed for fun among a group of predominantly straight crossdressers. They were made quite welcome, of course.<br /><br />Vivienne.Viviennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137595207723645418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-79825463377672420372014-02-03T10:40:41.222+13:002014-02-03T10:40:41.222+13:00Grok posting. I doubt that lumping T with L, G, a...Grok posting. I doubt that lumping T with L, G, and B is well thought out. In may simply be a way of classifying people as nonconformists.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-47561603394748561682014-02-02T10:14:50.861+13:002014-02-02T10:14:50.861+13:00Vivienne,
I applaud you for tackling this subject...Vivienne,<br /><br />I applaud you for tackling this subject because I have often wondered if there is a correlation between being gay and being a crossdresser. Every year I attend, with many of my T-girlfriends, a black tie fund raiser that supports a local LBGT coalition. My girlfriends and I are very well received, I'd even say embraced by our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. <br /><br />Anyway, there are usually at least a couple of gay men in attendance that dress as women. These men are not doing drag in the classic sense either. Instead, they present as women without mocking or sensationalizing the look. So, I have always wondered if the reasons they like to dress as women are similar to my own. <br /><br />If you take the view that being a crossdresser has nothing to do with sexual orientation, however, then it actually makes perfect sense that being gay doesn't necessarily prevent you from also being a crossdresser. In my mind, a person can be gay or straight and still find the same satisfaction from presenting as a woman. <br /><br />Thanks so much for the great blog post. I always find your comments interesting and thought provoking.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br />SallySally Stonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-82096726286775628502014-02-01T20:40:49.481+13:002014-02-01T20:40:49.481+13:00Jennifer Yager had trouble posting her comment, bu...Jennifer Yager had trouble posting her comment, but she writes:<br /><br />Vivienne,<br /><br />You nailed it on the head. LGBT is really LGB with the T kinda tossed in because we like four letter acronyms. The transgender community in general gets poor to no support from most gays. I notice that gay rights is a big issue, but transgender rights almost never comes up.<br /><br />Part of the problem in my opinion is many transgender and most crossdressers (not to lump them together, I'm a crossdresser and don't consider myself transgender) are straight. They don't identify at ALL with the gay community. Personally, I find a lot of gay activists annoying. As for gay marriage, my perspective is to let states and local governments figure it out and it really not be a national issue, mainly because there is no right to marriage (I'd be happier if the government had nothing to do with marriage). And while I am my own unique snowflake, I think there are plenty of crossdressers that don't really identify at all with the gay community, and thus they don't bother hanging out. So the few that do are patted on the head and tolerated, but really they aren't part of the party.<br /><br />The other part of the problem is organization. Gays are very organized. It's amazing to me how much money can be raised for any homosexual cause. Good on them, but crossdressers? Nope. No organization. Partly its because most people are in the closet, but I think it is a big reason for the disparity between the two. If crossdressers were more organized, you'd likely see the T in LGBT drop off and be its own organization.<br /><br />I've found it hard to connect with other crossdressers. Many are older and don't use chat. Most don't want to give out a cell number (not surprising, I can understand). And to meet in person? I agree, having a complete stranger you met on a forum or through the internet is scary, but we seem to be OK with meeting people in bars (and I've NEVER had a good date from a bar). Not sure why, but as long as crossdressers stay divided, they'll continue to be ostracized. In that respect, maybe its better to be attached to a stronger organization like LGBT and be along for the ride.<br /><br />Thanks for your blog, it's awesome, I love reading it.<br /><br />Jenny.<br /><br />Many thanks for taking the time to comment, Jenny. I think there are a lot of older crossdressers who have become Internet savvy just to get in touch with others!<br /><br />Vivienne.Viviennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137595207723645418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-28198954095193823032014-01-30T19:59:59.251+13:002014-01-30T19:59:59.251+13:00Hi Ralph,
This is a question which has also occur...Hi Ralph,<br /><br />This is a question which has also occurred to me. It seems quite possible for two people who are anatomically male to have sex with each other, while each insists they aren't gay. Some branches of the medical profession have attempted to get around this by using the term "MSM" to mean "men who have sex with men" as a means of moving away from what you actually <i>call</i> it; on the other hand, perhaps the people in the example I have given would say: "I am not a man! And neither is my partner!" which brings us back to square one.<br /><br />A crooked line indeed!<br /><br />Vivienne.Viviennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137595207723645418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-25187375443346232952014-01-30T14:30:38.632+13:002014-01-30T14:30:38.632+13:00Grok posting. I recall a web site...where it was ...Grok posting. I recall a web site...where it was commented that the different L, B, G, T groups don't necessarily understand each other. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-69819205581422295822014-01-30T12:10:16.893+13:002014-01-30T12:10:16.893+13:00Hi Pat. Thanks for your insightful comment, and yo...Hi Pat. Thanks for your insightful comment, and your kind compliment.<br /><br />I am inclined to think that T people are "lumped in" with LGB people by society as a whole, rather than all the LGBT people deciding to go it together. I think that what T people have in common with LGB people are feelings of isolation, discrimination, doubt, loneliness, and perhaps even guilt or shame. Those are negative things in common, rather than positive things in common (which might be attraction, shared goals, shared motivations, and a sense of belonging or feeling right together).<br /><br />That might explain why LGB and T people who have worked through that negative stuff might find they have nothing much left in common (except, I would hope, an ability to like one another as people without judgment).<br /><br />As for what attracts gay men, one of my other correspondents, Wilhelmina, says that in German gay bars, the gay clientele actually do hit on the trans clientele, who themselves may be curious about sex with a man from the point of view of a woman. I am reasonably certain that model would apply in other places too.<br /><br />It's great that you are known in that bar as someone whom one can just approach for a pleasant conversation, without being hit upon. Acceptance is high up my list of needs too.<br /><br />Vivienne.<br />Viviennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137595207723645418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-55657966680326240792014-01-30T12:04:07.649+13:002014-01-30T12:04:07.649+13:00This makes an interesting counterpart to my observ...This makes an interesting counterpart to my observations about being shunned by (presumably straight) crossdressers who are offended that I choose to wear the frilly dresses but still present as a man. In the same way, the gay community doesn't really know what to make of us.<br /><br />I think, too, that for some of the "deeper" crossdressers -- the ones who want to live as a woman all the time -- the line between gay and straight is a bit crooked. If you are physically a man but consider yourself a woman and you are attracted to men but only while you are dressed... are you gay or not?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-30756877715871303152014-01-30T06:45:16.212+13:002014-01-30T06:45:16.212+13:00This was an excellent article. You are likely clo...This was an excellent article. You are likely closest to the truth when you concede that the subject does not lend itself to resolution through analysis.<br /><br />On those rare occasions when I can go out I will often go to LGBT friendly bars. I find that I feel safe in those places since many of the L and G folks there are sensitive to discrimination. <br /><br />I also find that most gay men are as clueless about crossdressing as the rest of society. They are not interested in me as a hetero CD. There attraction is towards other men...not men dressed as women. The same is true of lesbians. They are attracted to other women...not men dressed as women. As the hetero CD I am the odd duck who can simply hang out at the bar, have a few drinks and engage in non-pressured conversations on any of a myriad of subjects. <br /><br />People who have encountered me find that I am a 'safe' conversationalist with not hookup related interests. When I first started going out I did note that some of the gay men avoided me. I think that they do not want to be perceived as having an interest in a CD. While I do not think that I pass and I try not to live in "fool's paradise" regarding my appearance I do dress nicely and do what I can to blend in as an older, and somewhat larger, women just out for a drink and some chat.<br /><br />PatPat Scaleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00148601231866277374noreply@blogger.com