tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post8819702330464106276..comments2024-03-24T13:12:39.210+13:00Comments on Bluestocking <i>Blue</i>: Is Pornography OK?Viviennehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06137595207723645418noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-48962235635282496192014-02-22T16:57:57.613+13:002014-02-22T16:57:57.613+13:00Thanks for your comment. I think the article above...Thanks for your comment. I think the article above reflects a reasonable balance of views from both men and women, and I went out of my way to consider a feminist perspective. I do not consider women to be weak in any way, although I absolutely do consider that most pornography is about the objectification of women for men's sexual desire.<br /><br />Perhaps you have an alternative perspective to offer, in which case you would be welcome to post it here. Please give a name of some kind, so that I can identify you amid other anonymous commentators.<br /><br />Vivienne.<br />Viviennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137595207723645418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-80243674439566163732014-02-22T12:06:25.450+13:002014-02-22T12:06:25.450+13:00Poor Poor women, isn't it sad that we allow ou...Poor Poor women, isn't it sad that we allow ourselves to be pushed into Porn ? You make it seem like women just can't help themselves, they must be so weak that they have to participate in porn even though it is so awful. Heaven forbid we might actually enjoy it for our own reasons....Perhaps you could speak with a woman about this subject instead of deciding for us what is and isn't when it comes to our participation in Porn.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-51782796474385922712012-12-13T20:52:57.367+13:002012-12-13T20:52:57.367+13:00Hi Georgia. Many thanks indeed for your thoughtful...Hi Georgia. Many thanks indeed for your thoughtful and detailed post.<br /><br />It sounds a lot like Pavlovian conditioning all over again: men becoming "conditioned" to respond to a certain aesthetic and behaviour from watching porn. This is a harm I had not heretofore considered, but I can totally understand it.<br /><br />One of the concerns I mention above is how my own kids will react. The only porn I had seen before my earliest encounters with a real partner was naked women in magazines; no men to be seen anywhere. That meant there was an amount of exploration and discovery to be undertaken, and it took place within a secure and long-lasting relationship. For me, then as now, the emotional content of that activity was at least as memorable and rewarding as its physical content.<br /><br />But porn (as in "1984") deliberately seeks to remove the emotional content of sex from its physical act. If this is what my kids see when they are wondering what sex is like, it will be pretty hard for them to envisage any emotional or loving context at all. And if they don't start out with that context, it will be all the harder for them to find it later.<br /><br />All I can do, I guess, is to keep the lines of communication as open as possible.<br /><br />I can't help touching on "Fifty Shades of Grey". I haven't read this, but it's doing the rounds of my wife's coffee cirle right now. I understand that Mr Grey offers Ana the protagonist a contract of dominance and submission, that the relationship will have no romantic content whatever, only sexual content.<br /><br />I find this deeply disturbing. For me the contract motif suggests that the only needs which will be fulfilled in the relationship will be his. What about her needs? What about the mutuality inherent in any successful relationship? Whither the partnership?<br /><br />Since I haven't read it, I can't be sure that there isn't a whole lot more subtlety in the book, nor even that I am missing something which is obvious to all the millions of readers who have bought the books; presumably for something other than propping up a wobbly table.<br /><br />But still. Harmless escapism? Deeply-repressed desires? Or merely learned gender-ranking? Not sure.<br /><br />Vivienne.Viviennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137595207723645418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-50331424470759841952012-12-12T20:09:35.834+13:002012-12-12T20:09:35.834+13:00I have many of the concerns you do about pornograp...I have many of the concerns you do about pornography but the results seem to be a bit different than MacKinnon had expected. Rather than becoming wild raping men many men are having trouble being aroused by real women who don't look like porn stars. Apparently, when men continually orgasm to a particular type of look, that look gets attached to their arousal. Some men also seem to get sexually attached to their computers and the fireworks of online porn, more so than real women and real sex, causing ED in young men.<br /><br />On the other hand, young men who have had plenty of experience with Internet porn seem to desire deep relationship with girlfriends, more so than past generations. Perhaps due to feminism. Other problems include women being exposed to violent and degrading porn (but also in mainstream society) and developing a craving for their own abuse. That doesn't always happen, but when it does it worries me. <br /><br />I can see the pro-sex feminist point of view too, that porn may be okay if it's done, "right." Like exploring sexuality and appreciating a variety of body types, consensual sex… unlike what is mostly out there right now.<br /><br />You also state, "The idea that your average woman equates "I feel sexy" with "I want to give a blow job" is a remarkably male notion of women's sexuality." Interestingly, a lot of women learn that too. But then, women often come to see the world through male eyes. There's a word for it: Androcentrism (a word I avoid in my blog). See these posts: <br /><br />Also, you are right that men and women tend to steer toward different types of erotica. <br /><br />I also agree that any pornography or sexual activity involving children is unacceptable. Kids can give consent, after all.<br /><br />Re: “I was thinking some more about pornography, and why some women deliberately create and display pornography involving themselves. It's just a theory, but I wonder if those women are doing it (partly) to create a sensation of power. The ability (and apparent willingness) to give pleasure is a powerful thing. To prominently display that places the woman in a position of power: I'm showing you this. I know you want it! But you can't have it, because I'm a stranger on the Internet thousands of miles away from you.”<br /><br />I hear this sort of thing a lot from men and I think it comes from a male perspective. The male role is all about power so they can project that motivation onto women. Also many men are reshuffled that women seem to take away their power. The women are probably seen a very differently. Women tend to see their beauty and sexuality -- which are tied up together -- as a measure of their worth. If they are seen as sexy than they are worthy and high status.<br /><br />Women may also get into porn for the money. Some get sidetracked from the desired career in Hollywood. Others are drawn to it, or forced into it, from prostitution. For those who enter voluntarily it's about making a lot more money than they could otherwise.<br /><br />Re “I am stuck in the middle. Pornography is sexually arousing, but emotionally unpleasant for me. That creates a conflict worthy of Schlosser's book. As a result, I recognise that, whatever it does to individuals and society, pornography is harmful to me. It's not OK.”<br /><br />Sounds healthy to me.<br /><br />The way I see it is that porn is out there and it is protected by free speech so I am more interested in educating people on the pitfalls and they can do what they want with that information. <br />BroadBlogshttp://broadblogs.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-25341923518193967412012-12-11T12:12:26.662+13:002012-12-11T12:12:26.662+13:00Hi John,
It's taken me a few months to check ...Hi John,<br /><br />It's taken me a few months to check out this link, but I did so the other day and I am delighted with the blog. I have added it to my subscription list and read many of the posts. Thanks very much for the link.<br /><br />Vivienne.Viviennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06137595207723645418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-51115203077779447932012-07-22T20:17:08.120+12:002012-07-22T20:17:08.120+12:00Vivienne,
Thorin pointed out this post to me and ...Vivienne,<br /><br />Thorin pointed out this post to me and I thought it was another interesting take on the pornography issue and potential consequences. http://broadblogs.com/2012/07/02/sex-objects-who-dont-enjoy-sex/<br /><br />This blog has many interesting articles in addition to this one.<br /><br />JohnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-55368540060004920602012-07-21T04:19:06.597+12:002012-07-21T04:19:06.597+12:00Nicely put, Thorin. I frequently find myself in t...Nicely put, Thorin. I frequently find myself in the middle of arguments between my church friends (who favor "legislating morality") and my unchurched friends (who fight against any judgement or morality labels) by arguing exactly that -- yes, I believe [action X] is contrary to God's will, but no, I don't believe we should expect the government to enforce God's will; our police work should be limited to protecting citizens from harm. You want to get BOTH sides ganging up to tar and feather you? Try explaining that you believe the Bible forbids homosexual relationships but you think there should be no laws forbidding them.<br /><br />As many vices as I have, there has never been a strong attraction to pornography. The sight of some enormous male organ (doubtless airbrushed) working on a woman, willing or not, is a bit revolting; straight nude imagery of women is so ubiquitous in our society that it, too, does little for me. Erotic stories are so over-the-top ridiculous and cliched I can't read it without bursting out laughing.<br /><br />My only other comment on this subject is that I'm going to have that hilarious (but too offensive to post a link to) song from "Avenue Q" stuck in my head all day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4642548439896244587.post-19151653369533145432012-07-21T00:57:59.997+12:002012-07-21T00:57:59.997+12:00The tricky thing is what do we do when something i...The tricky thing is what do we do when something is immoral. Do we make it against the law? What is something is just potentially harmful but immoral? I think our laws are heavily inconsistent right now, and I'm not what the answers are.<br /><br />Most people would say pornography is immoral but its not against the law.<br />Most people would say prostitution is immoral and it is against the law.<br />Most people would say adultery is immoral and it is not against the law.<br /><br />And then you have things that can be harmful against the law, like we severely restrict gambling for young people, and yet they can drive a car and get into accidents.<br />New York banned big things of soda or something like that because its unhealthy and harmful?<br /><br />Confusing issues. I think I want our government to make very few laws on things even that are immoral or harmful. We need to allow people freedom. So as much as I hate pornography and crossdressing, I think both should be legal. But anything that involves forced harm of others I think people would agree should be against the law.Thorin25https://www.blogger.com/profile/14491694029264437630noreply@blogger.com